While women are busy sharing cocktail recipes in our group chats, men are trading sexual assault tactics in theirs. And the good guys™ are more outraged by this headline than that fact.
As a man, I write the following: 70K men comparing notes on how to assault women is horrifying. That's not a chat group. That is a terrorist organization. Damn.
I'm a trans masculine person and have frankly been appalled at the inability for men to recognize that it is A LOT of us doing this (although I don't use man as a label I still feel I qualify for the purpose of this statement). "Not all men" is a deflection against criticism and scrutiny without extreme cause. But, as a victim of assault myself, they are almost always invisible. Mine was invisible.
"Not all men" keeps women from seeing justice in the same way "all lives matter" deflected attention from systemic racism. Yes, not all men are rapist, yes all lives do matter, but saying that in response to ACTUAL SYSTEMIC ISSUES is never an appropriate response. It dilutes the actual issue instead of addressing what is actually happening: The horrible and massive assaults on women and feminine identifying people.
I extend my deepest sympathies to others who have experienced assault.
What is your problem? Are you in here to rage bait and put women of color against white women? Sure seems that way and I am beginning to think you're one of the 70,000? This isn't a thread for you to insult someone for reminding us white women we don't have it worst of all. Ffs So you're either just willfully h8ful or you're just a magat in disguise, which is the same thing.
Thanks for the article, well reported. Unfortunately not an inch of me is surprised and I hate that for us. Seriously though, the way things are heading with an actual rapist felons soon to be running things in US again very soon it really is a slap in the face for all women. I’m in the UK where the new Labour government are going to be cleaning up the stench from the previous Conservatives who had MPs guilty of DV, SA inside the Houses of Parliament. The judiciary need a big kick up the backside as it seems to me sentencing is not giving the vile crimes the serious length of time they deserve. So where do we go next? Too long men are getting away it which clearly makes them think they are untouchable.
Thank you! Yes I am also not surprised. Horrified, but not surprised. I wish I knew exactly where to go from here. But I do know "good men" need to be doing and saying A LOT more to the rest of them.
I tell my husband that. That it's up to good guys like him to call out other men when they are derogatory towards women.
Remind them that's someone's daughter, sister, mother, etc. and how would they feel if they were the subject of that talk? Call them out into the light.
Not all men? Well guess what, all women are afraid of you because we don't know who's trying to harm and rape us, so yeah. It's all women who are afraid of you. And what are you gonna do about that?
Wow. Over 50% in the US? And I thought 20% in Australia was bad.🥺
Although there's not an immense amount of confidence in that 20%. And before some idiot leaps in, no, the issue is that it's probably a lot higher due to unreported rapes. Like mine.
I'd love to get some comedians at the next Melbourne Comedy Festival to do a show of hands - "have you been raped or sexually assaulted? Put your hand up." "Leave it up if you didn't report it". I suspect it would be a lot higher 😔
Here’s a thought: why isn’t there a 70K-strong women’s network discussing active, cooperative, _violent_, means of direct action against known rapists and abusers? I suggest kneecapping.
Hey Peter. Well there are in a way. They are called self-defense classes and they happen hourly across the planet. But to your point why isn't there a 70K-strong men’s network discussing how to stop rapists and abusers?
Are you saying women should be vigilantes and ambush men who have abused or attacked us? I believe women should not have to do this - it is still making us responsible for dealing with violence that should not be tolerated by any decent human being. That’s just wrong. It is the abusers and attackers who are in the wrong; that’s what needs to change.
What violence are you advocating there Peter, and how would women kneecapping men after the fact create a safer or more just world than actual justice?
Perhaps you and I can agree to meet in some neutrally safe place with lanterns so we can go about looking for that “actual justice” you speak of. I’m sure if we look hard enough, perhaps combing the bushes like the NYPD in Central Park, we’ll find it.
Or, perhaps, we could instead recognize the natural justice in the Rough Music visiting some of these rapists and advocates for rape who walk about with impunity.
In general, women dread testifying in court because they must face their abusers in court. The Constitution guarantees it. Problem is, it was written by men. They haven’t got a clue.
So pathetic. And yeah, the de-humanizing use of the word “female” instead of woman makes my blood boil. We’re not a member of some alien species, guys, we’re people!
This is as horrifying to read about as following the facts of Gisele Pelicot’s case in France. The comment above is correct; this is a terrorists group chat.
Edited to add: the people commenting on here who went straight to “not all men”…y’all missed the entire point of this post and are proving Jo’s point.
Also, the statistical comparison of the group’s number to total male population is IRRELEVANT. The fact is that there are, at least, 70,000 men who participate in figuring out how to rape women, assault tactics. That is the fucking point. Immediately pivoting to “bUt nOt mEn” is showing how defensive you are about a fact that seemingly makes you uncomfortable. Why? (Don’t actually respond to that question because idgaf.)
What’s really horrible is what the Israelis have done. What they did in Cypress and other places. What they do to tourist women in their own country. They believe that if you’re not Jewish, then they can use you for their liking. Rape is ok in their society. It was shown to be, when the citizens rioted in defense of them raping Palestinian prisoners, both male and female. Some societies are rotten and when those people go other places, rape happens. The worst part is that western governments bow down to them. When these rapes occur, they don’t do anything about it.
Or you get the "Well, women do X" or "Men suffer from Y," to which I say, okay, but that is wrong too. Any injustice is wrong--why make this a competitive thing. This isn't a sporting event, and it is possible to be outraged by more than one thing. It's like they think their own suffering cancels out the suffering of someone else.
As a man, I write the following: 70K men comparing notes on how to assault women is horrifying. That's not a chat group. That is a terrorist organization. Damn.
100% a terrorist organization.
Was this reported to the FBI?
Sadly, I'm doubtful anything much was done to pursue these premeditated sex criminals. I hope someone else can prove me wrong.
I'm a trans masculine person and have frankly been appalled at the inability for men to recognize that it is A LOT of us doing this (although I don't use man as a label I still feel I qualify for the purpose of this statement). "Not all men" is a deflection against criticism and scrutiny without extreme cause. But, as a victim of assault myself, they are almost always invisible. Mine was invisible.
"Not all men" keeps women from seeing justice in the same way "all lives matter" deflected attention from systemic racism. Yes, not all men are rapist, yes all lives do matter, but saying that in response to ACTUAL SYSTEMIC ISSUES is never an appropriate response. It dilutes the actual issue instead of addressing what is actually happening: The horrible and massive assaults on women and feminine identifying people.
I extend my deepest sympathies to others who have experienced assault.
Yes exactly, Outis. So well explained!
Exactly this. Thank you.
What is your problem? Are you in here to rage bait and put women of color against white women? Sure seems that way and I am beginning to think you're one of the 70,000? This isn't a thread for you to insult someone for reminding us white women we don't have it worst of all. Ffs So you're either just willfully h8ful or you're just a magat in disguise, which is the same thing.
I couldn’t click that “like” button without my soul withering a little. But thank you for writing this. Fuck this shit.
Yes I totally get what you mean!
Thanks for the article, well reported. Unfortunately not an inch of me is surprised and I hate that for us. Seriously though, the way things are heading with an actual rapist felons soon to be running things in US again very soon it really is a slap in the face for all women. I’m in the UK where the new Labour government are going to be cleaning up the stench from the previous Conservatives who had MPs guilty of DV, SA inside the Houses of Parliament. The judiciary need a big kick up the backside as it seems to me sentencing is not giving the vile crimes the serious length of time they deserve. So where do we go next? Too long men are getting away it which clearly makes them think they are untouchable.
Thank you! Yes I am also not surprised. Horrified, but not surprised. I wish I knew exactly where to go from here. But I do know "good men" need to be doing and saying A LOT more to the rest of them.
I tell my husband that. That it's up to good guys like him to call out other men when they are derogatory towards women.
Remind them that's someone's daughter, sister, mother, etc. and how would they feel if they were the subject of that talk? Call them out into the light.
And yet, I'm not at all surprised.
Sadly me neither
Not all men? Well guess what, all women are afraid of you because we don't know who's trying to harm and rape us, so yeah. It's all women who are afraid of you. And what are you gonna do about that?
Wow. Over 50% in the US? And I thought 20% in Australia was bad.🥺
Although there's not an immense amount of confidence in that 20%. And before some idiot leaps in, no, the issue is that it's probably a lot higher due to unreported rapes. Like mine.
I'd love to get some comedians at the next Melbourne Comedy Festival to do a show of hands - "have you been raped or sexually assaulted? Put your hand up." "Leave it up if you didn't report it". I suspect it would be a lot higher 😔
And then they wonder why women don’t respect them anymore nor want to breed with them.
BELIEVE WOMEN.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Here’s a thought: why isn’t there a 70K-strong women’s network discussing active, cooperative, _violent_, means of direct action against known rapists and abusers? I suggest kneecapping.
Hey Peter. Well there are in a way. They are called self-defense classes and they happen hourly across the planet. But to your point why isn't there a 70K-strong men’s network discussing how to stop rapists and abusers?
I am for that kind of network, of true men., yes.
But I also think there’s a tendency in many men (and in not a few women) to put men in a paternalistic “protector” role over women.
I would not be for the latter, even as I share with my spouse the role of looking out for our family.
Pete,
We definitely need to start something here.
It’s completely out of control and getting worse by the day with potus 47 tomorrow.
Mr Racist Misogyny incorporated has already made a major assault on all women everywhere with overturning Roe vs Wade.
Are you saying women should be vigilantes and ambush men who have abused or attacked us? I believe women should not have to do this - it is still making us responsible for dealing with violence that should not be tolerated by any decent human being. That’s just wrong. It is the abusers and attackers who are in the wrong; that’s what needs to change.
Maybe they should, or take other direct action. No more letting men get away with this shit.
What violence are you advocating there Peter, and how would women kneecapping men after the fact create a safer or more just world than actual justice?
Perhaps you and I can agree to meet in some neutrally safe place with lanterns so we can go about looking for that “actual justice” you speak of. I’m sure if we look hard enough, perhaps combing the bushes like the NYPD in Central Park, we’ll find it.
Or, perhaps, we could instead recognize the natural justice in the Rough Music visiting some of these rapists and advocates for rape who walk about with impunity.
https://open.substack.com/pub/fredericpoag/p/some-of-yall-need-to-stop-chastising
In general, women dread testifying in court because they must face their abusers in court. The Constitution guarantees it. Problem is, it was written by men. They haven’t got a clue.
So pathetic. And yeah, the de-humanizing use of the word “female” instead of woman makes my blood boil. We’re not a member of some alien species, guys, we’re people!
This is as horrifying to read about as following the facts of Gisele Pelicot’s case in France. The comment above is correct; this is a terrorists group chat.
Edited to add: the people commenting on here who went straight to “not all men”…y’all missed the entire point of this post and are proving Jo’s point.
Also, the statistical comparison of the group’s number to total male population is IRRELEVANT. The fact is that there are, at least, 70,000 men who participate in figuring out how to rape women, assault tactics. That is the fucking point. Immediately pivoting to “bUt nOt mEn” is showing how defensive you are about a fact that seemingly makes you uncomfortable. Why? (Don’t actually respond to that question because idgaf.)
What’s really horrible is what the Israelis have done. What they did in Cypress and other places. What they do to tourist women in their own country. They believe that if you’re not Jewish, then they can use you for their liking. Rape is ok in their society. It was shown to be, when the citizens rioted in defense of them raping Palestinian prisoners, both male and female. Some societies are rotten and when those people go other places, rape happens. The worst part is that western governments bow down to them. When these rapes occur, they don’t do anything about it.
Yes, well said!
Thanks for writing this. Saying, "Not all men," in response to women is equivalent to saying, "All lives matter" in response to BLM.
“They are our neighbors.
Our doctors.
Our firemen.
Our cops.
Our coworkers.
Our Uber drivers.
Our mailmen.
Our brothers.
Our husbands.
Our sons.”
EXACTLY THIS!
And 93% of SA cases, the woman already knows the attacker
That’s right! Less than one out of 10 of SAs is committed by a stranger
And 97% of rapists are males. 90% of victims are women.
That’s why I get angry when you hear about all the immigrants are going to come in and rape our women.
That’s absolute bullshit because the statistics make it very clear. It’s already a man that we know.
Or you get the "Well, women do X" or "Men suffer from Y," to which I say, okay, but that is wrong too. Any injustice is wrong--why make this a competitive thing. This isn't a sporting event, and it is possible to be outraged by more than one thing. It's like they think their own suffering cancels out the suffering of someone else.